Speaker 1: 0:00

Welcome back to the House of Ravenbrook. I'm Eric Marquette and, as always, I'm joined by the ever-spirited Ruby Sturt. Today we're diving into a topic that's well a bit heavier than our usual fare religious manipulation and the shadows it can cast on our spiritual journeys.

Speaker 2: 0:17

Yeah, and honestly, it's one of those things that's so common but we don't always have the language for it. Like you know something's off but you can't quite put your finger on it. I remember at uni sitting in a tutorial and someone just casually said oh, I don't believe in hell. And I was like wait, you can say that out loud. I'd grown up thinking, even questioning that stuff was basically inviting a lightning bolt.

Speaker 1: 0:40

That's such a relatable moment. I think a lot of us have been there, raised in environments where fear, guilt and shame are used, sometimes subtly, sometimes not to keep us in line. Richard Ravenbrook talks about this in his memoir how the pressure to conform can be so intense that it actually silences your own intuition. You end up doubting yourself, not just your beliefs.

Speaker 2: 1:02

Totally. And it's not always some big dramatic thing. Sometimes it's just the little comments like if you really loved God, you'd do this or you're bringing shame on the family. It's sneaky. I remember feeling this weird guilt for even wanting to skip church to study for exams, like the idea that you're never quite good enough or you're always one step away from being judged.

Speaker 1: 1:26

And that's the thing. These tactics whether it's fear of divine punishment or the threat of being ostracized, they're incredibly effective at keeping people in line, but the cost is huge. You end up with people who are anxious, disconnected from themselves and sometimes even from the divine, whatever that means for them. Ravenbrook describes it as a kind of spiritual bondage, where you're trapped by beliefs that don't actually resonate with your inner truth.

Speaker 2: 1:50

Yeah, and it's not just about religion, right, it's about any system that uses fear and shame to control, but with religion it's so personal, it gets right into your sense of self-worth. I mean, I had this moment in my second year where I just sat there and thought do I actually believe any of this, or am I just terrified of what happens if I don't? That was a real turning point for me.

Speaker 1: 2:12

That's powerful and I think it's important to say questioning isn't a sign of weak faith. If anything, it's a sign of growth. As Ravenbrook puts it, the journey to spiritual freedom often starts with a whisper of doubt. It's not about rejecting everything, but about finding what's actually true for you, not just what you've been told to believe.

Speaker 2: 2:32

Exactly, and for anyone listening who's felt that pressure or who's been made to feel guilty for asking questions, you're not alone. It's actually really brave to start unpicking those inherited beliefs and, honestly, it's the first step towards something way more authentic.

Speaker 1: 2:49

So let's talk about the texts themselves, Because, let's be honest, the Bible is complicated. I mean, you open Genesis and you've got two different creation stories back to back. One's all about God creating everything in six days, and then the next chapter. Suddenly it's a different order, a different style. It's like did the editors just not notice?

Speaker 2: 3:08

Or maybe they just thought, eh, let's throw them both in, see what sticks. But seriously, it's wild how we're taught to read these stories as if they're all one seamless narrative, when actually they're full of contradictions, Like Cain and Abel. God's response to Cain is so ambiguous. Is it justice? Is it mercy? Is it just weird?

Speaker 1: 3:31

Right, and it's not just Genesis. The whole Bible is a patchwork of different voices, different agendas, different historical moments. I had this conversation once with a biblical scholar. She said reading scripture critically is a bit like trying to make sense of your family's stories at Christmas. Everyone remembers things differently and sometimes the stories just don't add up. But that doesn't mean there's no wisdom there. It just means you have to dig a bit deeper, ask better questions.

Speaker 2: 3:59

Yeah, and I think that's where a lot of people get tripped up. We're told don't question, just believe. But when you actually look at the text, it's almost inviting you to wrestle with it. Like, why are there two creation accounts? Why does God seem loving in one story and vengeful in another? It's messy, but it's also kind of freeing. You realise. Oh, this is a human document. It's not supposed to be perfect.

Speaker 1: 4:22

Exactly and, as we've talked about in previous episodes, especially when we looked at the roots of the Ravenbrook tradition, there's a real value in embracing that complexity. It's not about throwing out the whole thing, but about engaging with it honestly. The contradictions aren't a problem to be solved. They're an invitation to go deeper, to find your own meaning.

Speaker 2: 4:43

And honestly it's a relief, like you don't have to twist yourself into knots trying to make everything fit. You can say, yeah, this part doesn't make sense to me, or I don't agree with this bit, and that's okay. It's actually a sign of respect for the text. I reckon to take it seriously enough to question it.

Speaker 1: 4:59

And it opens up space for nuance For example, the story of Cain and Abel. And it opens up space for nuance For example, the story of Cain and Abel. Some people see it as a story about jealousy, others about divine justice, others about the randomness of suffering. There's no one right answer and that's kind of the point. The text is a starting point, not the final word.

Speaker 2: 5:17

Yeah, and if you're listening and you've ever felt like you're doing it wrong because you see the contradictions, trust me, you're not. You're actually engaging with the tradition in a way that's way more honest and, dare I say, spiritual than just memorising the right answers.

Speaker 1: 5:34

So where does that leave us If we're not just following the rules and we're not pretending the contradictions don't exist? What does a healthy spiritual path look like? Ravenbrook talks about it as a spiral, not a straight line. You circle back, you revisit old questions, you grow, you stumble, you heal. It's not about arriving at some final destination.

Speaker 2: 5:55

Yeah, and I love that image because, honestly, healing from religious trauma or just from the pressure to conform, isn't a one and done thing, it's ongoing For me. After I left my old church, I found so much comfort just walking in nature, like literally just wandering around the park, listening to the birds, letting myself feel whatever I was feeling. Sometimes I'd journal, sometimes I'd just sit and breathe. It sounds simple, but it was huge for me.

Speaker 1: 6:23

That's beautiful and it lines up with what Ravenbrook and others say about practical tools, meditation, journaling, active listening, finding community. It's about building self-compassion, letting yourself be imperfect and not needing to have all the answers. Sometimes just having someone to talk to or a group where you can be honest about your doubts makes all the answers.

Speaker 2: 6:45

Sometimes just having someone to talk to or a group where you can be honest about your doubts, makes all the difference. Yeah, and I think it's important to say there's no right way to do this. Some people find solace in rituals, some in creativity, some in just being quiet. The point is you get to choose, you get to reclaim your own voice and if you stumble, or if you find yourself doubting again.

Speaker 1: 7:13

That's not failure. That's just part of the spiral. You're still moving forward, even if it doesn't feel like it. The journey is about finding what resonates with your deepest self. It's about community, yes, but also about trusting your own inner compass, and that takes time and patience and a lot of self-kindness.

Speaker 2: 7:31

So if you're listening and you're somewhere on that spiral maybe you're just starting to question or maybe you're deep in the process of rebuilding just know you're not alone. There's no rush and there's no finish line. It's okay to take your time to try new things, to let go of what doesn't serve you anymore.

Speaker 1: 7:50

And that's probably a good place to wrap for today. We'll keep exploring these themes in future episodes how to build supportive communities, how to create your own rituals and how to keep growing even when the path gets messy. Ruby, as always, it's been a pleasure.

Speaker 2: 8:06

Right back at you, eric, and to everyone listening. Take care of yourselves, be gentle and remember the journey is yours. We'll see you next time in the House of Ravenbrook.